Thursday, 6 September 2012

Warmaster is dead and the scale along with it. Part 1.

Now the cull is complete and everything that has survived it is stored in carry cases etc with relevant camps and baggage even all the 6mm and 10mm scenery have their own boxes! So what next?
I been thinking about this for some time and you know how it is, one day its one historical period, one rules set then another, 10mm, 6mm or something completely different. There's quiet a bit of new shiny stuff out there (but no 10mm/6mm though)too which doesn't help. So what is the future of gaming in 6mm and 10mm since Warmaster Ancients bit the dust there hasn't been anything to follow it up nobody has stepped into those shoes, I know Hail Caesar is a nod in the right direction but it wasn't made for the smaller scale. TB Line and Kallistra have both released free rules sets and both are very good but ultimately they where developed to sell Hexes which they manufacture and you need the Hexes to play the games.Baccus has a set of rules again I'm not sure this was designed solely for 6mm or their figures and unit sizes, having never read the rules I cant pass judgement on those. Players of the smaller scale don't have a game they can call there own. We of the smaller scale once again have to play everybody else's game and use bloody adjustments for this and for that. Warmaster is dead and the scale along with it, look at the amount of new releases that came out as Warmaster was growing...loads... look now, not many, I cant remember the last time I saw something from Magister Militum or TB Line, Pendraken are one of the only ones with new stuff on a regular basis but these are mainly for WWII or Naps and the like, Ancients, Dark Age or Medieval, nowt. And no sign on the horizon and who can blame them no point releasing miniatures if there's no games out there that uses them. So Ive looked at my  collection and think whats out there in 10mm that Id like and haven't already got? Nothing Ive got a least one of Pedrankens Medievals and Arab ranges same for Magister Militum and TB Lines so their ranges have nothing fresh for me to paint. So whats next?.....

32 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Hi,
      More frustration than pain :-)

      Jason

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  2. You might want to take a look at the rules on Simon MacDowall's site: http://legio-wargames.com/#/rules/4537022304

    Regarding the Baccus rules, although aimed at 6mm, they can be used for other scales as it is the base width that is the unit of measurement.

    Another set of rules to think about is Impetus/Basic Impetus - I believe there are versions for later periods as well.

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    1. Hi Tamsin,
      Thanks for the link I give them a look, as for Impetus I've only just sold the rules in my latest cull, Me and a gaming mate used to play them twice a week for ages, played Basic before the main rules came out and IMO they are one of the best sets out there but as with all sets that are not made solely for the smaller scales, bases can be two sizes for 10mm and getting opponents for Impetus could sometimes be a nightmare and then throw the above into the mix..I think my post should have been about finding a popular set that gamers agree on. Warmaster gave 10mm gamers a set just for that scale no differing base sizes etc.

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  3. 28mm Dux Bellorum!!

    Thats my next big project, if I ever finish my Muslims and stuff.....

    ....Hail Caesar with 6mm armies would be pretty cool though....

    Steve

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    1. Hello Steve,

      From you this is what i expect!! :-)

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  4. Tamsin is right. You can use Baccus rules in which scale you prefer since they use the base width as measure.

    Also for Impetus, from the chariots era to the Renaissance.

    You can check also Command&Colours by Richard Borg, ancient version...

    http://www.ccancients.net/Rules/Base-Game/index.html

    New miniatures by TB Line are really interesting, even if at present I' m more interested in Pendraken WWI...;-)

    Happy Wargaming.

    Marzio.

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  5. As has been mentioned, Baccus rules are base led. One base = one unit so as long as both armies conform to a base size your sorted. The thing is I don't like the Nap rules, not tried the others but the problem with the Naps is that it does not really feel Naps. Others may do.

    Impetus and basic Impetus work well on the smaller scales (I would say better for the 6-10mm than any other as they look the part. In fact any rule set that works on a base is a formation is the small scale players best pal. In 6mm Baccus has just refurbished many ranges adding new figures and re-doing older figures a new in new postures or just cleaned up. Ancient range just released. No knowledge about 10mm but I think as the scale creep of 6mm has moved to 7.5 and the 10mm towards 12mm then the whole point of 10mm becomes pointless. You may as well do 15mm. So rather than rules could it be scale that is the bigger issue?

    I see 28mm being a strong hobby base as I do the 6-10mm group. 15mm is the scale most under attack. In the last 5 years which scale has had the least new figures released? I am not able to answer just coming back in the last year but for me 15mm seems to be same old same old for the most part and that's the scale I have the most armies in!!!

    Ian

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    1. Hello Ian

      To be honest i think 15mm is a close second to 28mm and the ranges are vast. With the dbx looky likey systems still one of the best scales to wargame in.

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    2. I would argue that 15mm is bigger than 28mm both in ranges and what is played but in terms of new ranges and new additions I think it's lagging behind. The question is where is it in sales? That is the most important question.

      ian

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  6. Just play the game...

    What's the big deal?

    You've got all the stuff.

    No game is truly dead when it can be played yet one more time.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Ashley

      All very true, but if your trying to introduce new players to 10mm and the most popular and best system to play that scale in is no longer published, my question is whats next for playing just 10mm without adjusting this size or that distance.

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  7. To say that the scale (10mm) is dead is a bit strong. There are many enthusiasts for this scale (me included). I suggest you have a look at the Pendraken forum to see how 'dead' 10mm really is. I don't see a rules problem either, surely any 15mm set can cope with 10mm. That's a very nice army BTW :)

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    1. Hi,
      I agree to say 10mm is dead is strong, but as I've said because there is no one rules set about production of new stuff is becoming limited. I know Pendraken still fly the flag strong and the Baggage Train have started doing some 10mm Figures (and very nice they are too) but on the whole as the rest of the industry is appearing to be on the up 10mm is just treading water watching the ship go over the horizon. Thanks for the army comment :-)

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  8. In all seriousness though, HC played really well in 10mm, and if I remember correctly, we didn't adjust any of the measurements.
    I really think it would be great in 6mm too....

    I feel your frustration though, if no one else collects 6/10mm, then that means you have to provide all the troops etc, I suppose 28mm gamers don't have so much trouble, as its a more "popular" scale.

    Personally, I like to collect and paint loads of different stuff, in different scales too, as it keeps it interesting, for me at least.

    Steve

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    Replies
    1. Hiya Ste,

      Your right HC plays well with 10mm (as we know)and would look bloody amazing in 6mm but its not been made for these scales, I get the feeling its a case of yep there you go chaps a great system for playing big battle 28mm in an evening.. oh by the way you guys with the 10mm can have a go with your figs if you want.

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  9. So, design some! I'd be willing to be you have both the experience to do so, and a fairly well-developed sense of what makes for a good small-scale game.

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  10. Dux Bellorum will work well for 10mm.
    The rules are written so distances are measured in base widths. So your 40mm wide WM bases become the basic unit of measurement. No need to re-base and TBH WM units look more like what the rules claim a base to represent (50 blokes) than the 6 or 8 you'll get in 28mm

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    Replies
    1. I'd agree, give them a look, I've just written a short review with links to others, and at under a tenner too!

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  11. Funny, I'm just moving from 28mm to 10mm. Not for every project, jut the large scale ones. With space a a premium I see small scales as the future.

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    Replies
    1. The answer could just be around the corner :-)

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  12. Interesting post, and I can understand the frustration. No one likes to be playing a defunct game and feeling like one of the last few native speakers of Scottish Gallic or something!

    I would love to see someone take on the WMA ruleset and release a 2.0. I reckon it would be a great shot in the arm for the system. I would be very interested to find out exactly how much changing of names would be needed to not fall foul of legal shenanigans.

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  13. The interest in WMA and WMM is still BIG you only have to look at what the rules are going for on e.bay to see that. As for second edition it aint going to happen even Rick Priestly said he had written a second edition and put it to GW who said no thanks. And apparently the rights will never be released(But never say never).

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  14. Where I find 10mm frustrating and part of the reason my ECW project is being done in 6mm is the slim pickings in buildings. Though Total Battle Minatures are moving into this scale.

    Ian

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  15. I know what you mean about the buildng total battle do some fantasic 15 and 6mm scenics

    Jason

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  16. I am still playing and enjoying Warmaster - still have all the rules and there is a little group of us looking to play somewhere along the M61 corridor now that the CACK club has kicked me out.

    But I am happy to get you playing with my set of rules, the Die is Cast. I currently collecting both armies for the battle of Chalons in 6mm. That being the Society of Ancients battle for the Big Battle day in 2013.

    You are quite right however Warmaster and the other products of Warhammer Historical will not be sold on to another party, I asked.

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  17. Hi justin,
    Like ive said i think there are some great rules out there and reading the drarft you gave me of yours if you can sell them youll be up there with the big boys:-).Im talking about rules that have been developed just for 6 and 10mm and are popular enough to make the figure manufactuers make new stuff. Getting10mm on the up again.

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  18. I'd say that HC is the natural evolution of Warmaster Ancients or even it is Warmaster II with a different name.
    Regarding the scale though you have to adjust as it does not feel right with 6-10mm IMHO.
    Here you can see a report of mine of HC with Baccus: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com.es/2012/09/testing-hail-caesar.html
    Cheers,

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  19. Hi there, Bishop Lord

    Just pondering; are you still of the same persuasion as you were in 2012 when you wrote this?

    Cheers
    L.

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